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Bearing question/scenario

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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:04 pm   
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2004 sebring convertible 2.7l
So, replacing timing chain, water/oil pump, sprockets, cam chains, all 3 tensioners etc..
I decided to check the bearings.
They had zero up/down play, however they do have side to side play.
I figured I would pull the caps off and the bearings would be worn or worse.
To my surprise, they look perfect, zero wear? Journals are also smooth as glass and look great?
Yes, I know I should check them with a plastigauge but for now I'm not gonna.
Question is..why or how would I have side to side play, but the bearings look great (thickness, wear, etc) with zero up/down play?
(And yes, I will check them)
Thanks for any replies to my first post!


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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:08 pm   
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Know sure what you mean side to side. The rod will move back and forth. That's perfectly normal. If you didn't have any rod knock and the bearings look good leave everything alone. How many miles on this motor?


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:02 am   
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If you mean side-to-side as in they slide along the shaft, that is acceptable as Terry noted. Think about this. Your engine, while in use, gets quite hot (coolant runs almost 200°, exhaust over 500°, etc). Those lovely metal parts expand when hot. If they didn't have any play when cold, think how much they'd bind up when they hit operating temps.

You didn't mention it, so I'm assuming you didn't find any build-up of sludge in your engine either. These are great engines when they work like they're supposed to.

-Andrew


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:25 am   
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It's got 105k on it.
It went through an episode of overheating..(at least from the perspective of the instrument panel saying it's overheating..)
I thought it might be an early sign the water pump was going, so I replaced it.
Incredibly I found no sludge, just traces of carbon where it was probably run low on oil. But I did thoroughly clean it and inspect oil pickup.
(Due to time/budget/life I didn't replace the timing chain or tensioner)
It began to rattle so I thought it was either the tensioner, the chain, or rod knock.
Purchased timing chain kit along with oil pump, and I'm just now putting everything back. (Putting oil pan back on now)
Just being ultra careful as I DO NOT want to have to open it up again. Really thought about just putting new bearings in, but not 1 sign of excessive (or really any) wear.
I will say, aside from the notorious 2.7, the car is pretty darn peppy!

My next item will be to address the ride quality, as I installed complete struts on all 4 corners, but something feels odd with the way it drives.
(IMHO, the front suspension set up is not in line with the rest of the cars engineering)
I'll post again after she's running to provide an update.
Thanks for your replies!
(By the way, the Hanes mentioned something regarding side to side, so I called dealership and they said "that's really bad", so I've been searching to find enough evidence to prove or disprove)


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:15 pm   
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From the factory FSM 2004.
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:03 pm   
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What chain and guide kit did you get? Did you get a OEM tensioner?


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:15 pm   
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Thanks, I guess the side play is ok.
I got the cloys stuff..man that chain is freaking tight. (Did compare all pieces and counted links)
I even got the stop block, but I'm debating on putting it in. (Honestly can't see how it will fit, unless I dremel the heck out of it)
I'm also doing tranny service, but I'm going to wait to see how the new stuff behaves first. I have a tough guard oil filter, not my favorite, I read that there is a larger oil filter that will fit, so may check that out.


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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:50 pm   
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I would go with an OEM tensioner.


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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:25 am   
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Hopefully the cloys will work out.
(I'm a hypocrite using them, as I never use oem on my bmw's, only genuine)

I did decide and installed the stop block, had to shave that sucker down though.

Starting back on reassembly in a few, hope to be done by 2pm. But I'm sure something will get in the way.

I'm looking for some factory wheels, the wheels on the car are factory but the plastic covered one's and look like crap.
If I gain some faith in this cars' longevity, I'm going to replace the carpet, and also give it a new coat of paint. (After I find a short block for my 530i that is...grrr)

Thanks again,

Paul


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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:05 pm   
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Well, I've run into a snag.
After I checked the bearings and confirmed end play is within normal range, I put the oil pan gallery on, and the oil pan.
As normal, I hand turn the crank to make sure everything is right.
The crank barely moves. Which completely sucks, as I've never ran into this the 3 other times I've replaced water pumps in a sebring. (I'm not running a business just help people out)
So...is my POS torque wrench off and I tightened the rod end bolts too tight? (And they are preventing the crank from rotating)
Did I screw up the right cam bank timing?
(I couldn't remember if I used a breaker bar to turn it counter or clockwise to align sprocket holes?
I guess I'll start with loosening the rod end cap bolts and inspecting the bearings to make sure they are correct?
Then retorque.
Then see if crank turns.
If that isn't it..my cams must some how not be set right?
Wish there was a definitive Easy To Understand way to confirm all the timing.
Seems everyone basically copy pastes the Haynes/Chilton manual, or gives an explanation that is not understandable.
Ughhh!


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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:40 pm   
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It appears my left bank cam chain is not aligned, if I remove main timing chain can i just rotate it to get it aligned?

If I pulled Both cams (like when replacing cam chains) and reinstalled them, would that procedure guarantee everything is correct? (My main chain is correctly aligned with the oil pump/crankshaft sprocket)


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 PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:00 am   
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H8mywifescar wrote:
It appears my left bank cam chain is not aligned, if I remove main timing chain can i just rotate it to get it aligned?

If I pulled Both cams (like when replacing cam chains) and reinstalled them, would that procedure guarantee everything is correct? (My main chain is correctly aligned with the oil pump/crankshaft sprocket)


If you pull both cams on each head, then yes, you could turn the crankshaft to the end of time without hurting anything. The key to everything on that engine, in my limited 2.7 experience, is getting the timing mark on the crankshaft to line up with the mark on the oil pump. That is my foundation and I build from there.

You mentioned changing water pumps for other people: It wasn't clear to me if you had done those on 2.7s or other cars. I was a bit concerned when I did the 2.7 in my sisters car and the timing marks didn't line up after two rotations of the crankshaft like they do on the 2.5. I even had to call another member to be sure I wasn't doing something wrong.

It seemed like it took 30 or so revolutions before all those timing marks came back to where they started.

Good luck.


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 PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:43 am   
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I'm not sure I'm following you here. You turned the crank after you installed the main timing chain? Now it is binding up? What did you do to the cams while installing the water pump? If you didn't touch the cam chains then they should not be out of time.

How far did you move the crank? Did you move the crank without the main chain on?


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 PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:02 am   
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keithestabrook wrote:
H8mywifescar wrote:
It appears my left bank cam chain is not aligned, if I remove main timing chain can i just rotate it to get it aligned?

If I pulled Both cams (like when replacing cam chains) and reinstalled them, would that procedure guarantee everything is correct? (My main chain is correctly aligned with the oil pump/crankshaft sprocket)


If you pull both cams on each head, then yes, you could turn the crankshaft to the end of time without hurting anything. The key to everything on that engine, in my limited 2.7 experience, is getting the timing mark on the crankshaft to line up with the mark on the oil pump. That is my foundation and I build from there.

You mentioned changing water pumps for other people: It wasn't clear to me if you had done those on 2.7s or other cars. I was a bit concerned when I did the 2.7 in my sisters car and the timing marks didn't line up after two rotations of the crankshaft like they do on the 2.5. I even had to call another member to be sure I wasn't doing something wrong.

It seemed like it took 30 or so revolutions before all those timing marks came back to where they started.

Good luck.


This is what I tried to explain to George you don't have to worry about lining up those different color links after you install everything and turn the motor over. They are irrelevant. They are only there so you know you are in perfect time before you start the motor up. Nowhere does it tell you to turn the motor over and recheck the timing marks and chain links before you start the motor. If the links and timing marks line up you are in time. That's it. Now it's a good idea to put just the timing marks where they should be when taking everything apart but you need not line up the chain links when taking everything apart.


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 PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:09 am   
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H8mywifescar wrote:
It appears my left bank cam chain is not aligned, if I remove main timing chain can i just rotate it to get it aligned?

If I pulled Both cams (like when replacing cam chains) and reinstalled them, would that procedure guarantee everything is correct? (My main chain is correctly aligned with the oil pump/crankshaft sprocket)


When your crank mark is lined up with the oil pump mark your crank is at 60 degrees ATDC. You can move you cams anywhere you want to and the valves will NOT hit the pistons. But I'm still not sure what you did here.


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